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Class is in session! Below, Cooch breaks down the details that stand out about bootleg copies of United Blood. Don’t be swindled!

DUBIOUS EBAY AUCTIONS - BUYER BEWARE!

For some unknown (and embarrassing, at least to myself) reason I have never owned an original copy of Agnostic Front’s “United Blood” ep. I don’t know why this is, since I’ve had my hands on a good number of copies over the years and I own just about every other early NYHC record. So I decided this year I’m just going to plunk down the cash and buy one regardless of price (within reason). After getting beat on ebay for two bona-fide original copies around $300 within the last couple of months, I noticed a smattering of bootlegs for sale as originals.

I emailed the seller of the first copy, and he insisted it was real even though the cover has two telltale marks of the American made bootleg - the cover is a poor quality repro and the copyright information from the bottom of the back cover has made its way to the bottom of the front cover due to a poor print job (and as a result the repro is missing a bit of empty space over the AF banner that is present on the orig), and from the 2nd picture, the pressing marks do not match the original[1] (the boot has a wider diameter, shallower pressing stamper mark around the center hole, original is smaller and deeper). Anyways this unscrupulous seller (also selling many white power records, go figure) got $282 for this copy, I hope the buyer realized it was a boot upon receiving it and was able to get a refund (probably not).

Boot copy number two came up about a week later (sorry no link, same version as above) and I again emailed the seller to see what he thought, and the guy quickly realized it was a boot and canceled the listing. At least there are some honest people out there.

Currently listed copy #3 - Again this one looked like the shoddy cover bootleg so I emailed the seller. Here’s the back and forth -

Me: can you give me matrix information?
Seller: The matrix reads ; AF-001-A and BIOBH on the printed label side and the other label is black.
Me: Oh, that is a bootleg then, that “BIOBH” is actually the number 31634 and the B label should be white.
Seller: I dunno, the matrix #’s check out. If it is a boot, Its an older one, as these records were all purchased in the early 80’s.

At this point, the seller basically refused to acknowledge that he is selling a bootleg, or at least that he is misleading bidders who might believe it’s original, and thus is going to hose the high bidder for $160+ when the auction ends. Greedy/unscrupulous sellers like this are really what makes ebay a crapshoot to the entry level buyer, unfortunately. This seller also has up a lot of nice early 80’s USHC stuff, but obviously does not know much about the records themselves (many are incorrectly listed in regards to their respective pressings, see Minor Threat and Negative Approach 7″s), so, all I can say is… buyer beware!

Footnotes:

[1]Chalk it up to completely useless nerdery (but moreso being involved in releasing a good amount of records over the past 8-9 years), but you can differentiate pressings of certain records by the impression the pressing machine leaves around the center hole. On the original United Blood, the pressing mark is a small, deep circle about 1″ in diameter, and most other early 80’s NYHC singles have the same marks. I believe they were pressed by a plant called Variety that was located somewhere in the NYC area. Check your Mob 2nd 7″ for reference.

Once again, sorry for getting so carried away yesterday, I know I said it would be a marathon post, but there’s obviously way too much to read, especially on a hardcore blog. Forgive me father. Today I will keep it simple with some short-hair music, and I promise no term papers.

 You pretty much can’t beat this for Straight Edge HC rarities outside of a Judge Chung King 12″: Youth Of Today “Break Down The Walls” on red vinyl. Everyone knows this is THE album for mid-80’s straight edge hc. Raging and fast enough even for the druggies out there. Most people also know the Wishingwell edition has a much better mix than subsequent Revelation versions of the record which have additional reverb added, and some kind of obnoxious Mutt-Lange style gated snare sound (check Phil Colins “Air Of Night” and listen for when the drums come in if you don’t know what I mean). The recording is still kind of unbalanced though. The toms are really loud in some places and sort of sound like really big boxes when they get hit, the snare kind of fades in and out in places, the guitars are too quiet in some songs, the whole thing just isn’t that clear sounding. I know they probably thought they had to go to a big studio to make a big lp, but they probably would have been better served cranking it out in a day or two at Don Fury’s 8-track Demo-Demo. It’s just kind of surprising that the premier straight edge band of the day couldn’t get a recording that sounded a little better.

On the whole YOT actually had really bad luck with recordings through their career. The first 7″ sounds like everything was recorded through one of those soup-can telephone toys you make when you’re little. The original mix of the lp that follows this one has drums that clip badly, thin guitars, and the remix of the same album has drums that are off-time. In the end, the Wishingwell version of “Break Down The Walls” is actually one of the better sounding things they ever released. It’s all sort of irrelevant because thousands of people the world over have been moved by these songs time and again, but still it’s odd to think about.

Red vinyl copies of this barely exist.  Look no further than this passage from the Revelation Discography txt file for the explanation:

“The 150 count on each of the records is what Porcell believes to have been made.  100 of each color were given to the band to sell, but before they had a chance, everything from their van was stolen while parked near CBGB’s before a show.  Assuming the thieves were not hardcore kids and were more interested in selling the band’s equipment than some silly records, it can be inferred that the majority of these 200 records were destroyed (a few were given away at the show before the rest were stolen however).  A few years later, Wishingwell sold their remaining copies to local Orange County record stores.  The difficulty of finding either color of this record can be attributed to their initial limited pressing as well as the alarming 66%+ destruction rate.  In another fairly distressing yet humorous twist to the plot, I was told that the owner of one of the stores that got a number of the remaining color vinyl copies, took a dozen or so red ones home and nailed, yes nailed, them to his back porch and watched them curl up in the California sun.”

With the American Dollar the way it is, I expect an all time high for this. I got ripped off on the sale of one once. A really bummer day. Anyone who wants to mail me a free copy to replace it, please get in touch for my address.

Whoa sorry for the hate fest yesterday. See what happens when I don’t get enough sleep folks? In the end, it probably did more good than bad for yesterday’s seller. But that was yesterday. What have I got today? More like, what haven’t I got? The answer to that question, is most of the records this dude is selling. SHAMEFUL on my part.

These listings are not ace, and it makes you wonder about the validity of a few items like the NA 7″, Urban Waste 7″, 7 Seconds “Skins” 7″, especially because the labels are not visible in the photos. On the other hand the seller obviously knows the value of these items, and they seem to be in the company of many obviously legitimate pressings (you can’t fake a Floorpunch on gold people).

How about a top 5 ?

1) I gotta take the Urban Waste 7″here. Presuming that everything is legit about it, this is a hell of a clean copy. Contains an instert, the cover looks nice, unfortunately you have to speculate on the vinyl due to the photo which at the least may keep the price down. It’s kinda strange you know, Urban Waste is at this point just shy of a $500 record. If this one actually had a classy listing I think it could break it, but it’s not hard finding an Urban Waste E.P. It hits ebay seemingly weekly. With only 1000-ish pressed it seems like a large number have survived so it’s kind of surprising the price has been able to climb steadily over the past few years.

2) Even if it’s 2nd press, a clean copy of the Negative Approach 7″is a good investment and I really doubt the price is ever coming down (barring global economic disaster). You’d have a tough time arguing this isn’t the best hardcore E.P. ever, even people outside hardcore can appreciate this one. Best vocals in a punk/hardcore band ever maybe? Contender for greatest lead off track - without a doubt. NA is a band that I would argue outshines their influences (S.O.A., Blitz, 4Skins) on this record. Been listening to it for 9 years of my life now and it hasn’t worn out its welcome in the least. Too bad I’ve been listening on a dumb CD. Gotta change that this year…

3) Either Minor Threat7″ here could, in my book give the NA 7″ a run for its money. They’re both later pressings, but I guess could fetch maybe 2 bills each. There’s been a LOT of Fillers popping up lately, although it shouldn’t surprise anyone. Even blue covers are going for 150-200 now, and there’s plenty to go around. I think pretty much only the red sleeved ones go for more than 250-300 though. Btw, anyone that wants to trade a Red Sleeved copy, I hereby offer my Dogs - Slash Your Face (stock copy) in exchange for one. Maybe we could workout the difference after that, but the thing has been played twice ever so consider that. I love some Detroit Rock n Roll, but I grew up w/ the White House in my backyard, and I’m straight edge, so Ian and the boys will always be my first love.

 4) Antidote without an insert is still an Antidote 7″, so eff it. I give this my number 4. Probably will still go for more than the Minor Threat recs, and the sleeve looks better than some I’ve seen. Why are these things always trashed? At least there’s no handwriting or water stains on this.  Please lord someone put together a better Antidote release than the junk currently available.

 5) Last Rights 7″w/ a mic-stand-throwing cover. A riff like Chunks really only comes once a career, and a record this legendary probably not much more than that. No matter how much embarrassing shit Choke has pulled over the years with Slapshot, it can never diminish this single. HARD HARD HARD skinhead HARDcore. If there were oi bands that actually sounded like this I’d get a pair of boots and a razor shave on my dome.

See you folks on Marathon Metal Monday…

Good lord this is already at $40? I guess that doesn’t touch even a hair of what it’s worth content-wise. Citizens Arrest started in NYC in 1989, originally with the now semi-famous singer/songwriter Ted Leo on vocals. They produced a solid demo tape, and started playing shows, mostly at ABC-No Rio with other new (at the time) bands like Born Against, Rorschach, and a lot of others that are less cool (sorry Bad Trip). If Born Against became known for their political rabble rousing, and Rorschach became hallowed for their experimentation with metal and noise in a hardcore context, then Citizens Arrest were the band for the purist. Hardcore for the hard-core. I’m getting slightly ahead of myself though. Right after the demo tape, Ted Leo split, forming Animal Crackers, then Chisel. Daryl Kahan, who played drums for the demo phase of the band then took up the mic, previously having sung in the forgotten, but awesome True Colors (check their demos and song on the New Breed comp), and this is when things really popped off. The band recruited a new drummer, Pat Winter, previously of Our Gang and True Colors, and went to the studio to record 2 songs for the Evacuate records sponsored “Look At All the Children Now” 12″ compilation. From there on out the Citizens Arrest sound was fully formed.

What makes Citizen’s Arrest awesome to this day is that they always had a pure hardcore side that grounded any eccentricities. At the root of it all you could tell they were into early SS Decontrol, DYS, Youth Of Today, Ripchord, Void, AF, Negative Approach. The essentials to meat and potatoes HC. But there was something more. For one the riffs and guitar playing were occasionally colored by melodic passages, something that was explored in more detail by Born Against, but which still helped to shape the CXA sound. Most bands that deal in brutality do so in the most complete way possible. It tends to be a monochromatic picture, and while I’ve got no problem with that, I think part of what makes Citizens Arrest’s brutality stand out from the pack is that occasionally they counter balance it with the melodic aspect. The other part of the picture is Daryl Kahan, the band’s vocalist. Daryl was seemingly the most extreme member of the band, and since Citizens Arrest, he’s gone on to play in several pure grind and death metal bands, and at least one black metal band too. You can tell that he’s already aware of these fledgling styles, and he uses his knowledge in some of the harsher portions of his vocal delivery, and in some of the more esoteric lyrical passages on CXA’s recordings. Seriously, on the “A Light In The Darkness” 7″, you’re hearing one of the best hardcore vocal recordings ever. It’s like some unholy alliance between the first Bathory lp, the Void split, and John Brannon. My description does it no justice whatsoever. You just have to hear the way Serve and Protect (the lead-off track) hits a guitar break, only to be brought back together by the vocals shouting “I thought your job was to SERVE…AND…PROTECT”. It’s goosebumps every time, I swear.

A Light In the Darkness was originally supposed to be Draw Blank #2 after the first Infest 7″, but instead came out on Fred Alva’s Wardance label (Killing Joke reference?). There are 2 pressings of 1,000 each, I think you can differentiate them based on the record matrix as they were done at 2 different pressing plants. There’s also 100 copies on red vinyl, good luck getting one. I didn’t hustle when I could have got one reasonably cheap and am going to have to pay the price for that sooner or later. Some copies also come with the Citizens Arrest Eyes logo screened on the inside such as the one up for auction here.

FUN FACT: Daryl Kahan can also be seen in Friday the 13th Part 8: Jason Takes Manhattan as a skinhead in the times square scene.

One of the earliest NYHC lp rarities is the first Damage lp - Sins Of Our Fathers. Damage have a pretty classic pre-’85 sound for NYC, somewhere between Victim In Pain, Adjustment To Society, and the first Reagan Youth lp maybe. The difference is, they never made it to an actual studio (as far as I know). Instead they released 2 albums recorded live off the board at CBGBs, this being the first and far more rare one on Gnarl Records. Another odd aspect of the band was that they had 2 bass players, which apparently wasn’t so unheard of in New York back in the day, as The Cavity Creeps had a setup like this too. Something like 300-500 of this lp pressed but at least half must have fallen into a black hole because you rarely see it. Cover and insert look to be in nice shape too. Seller has plenty of other key items from all over the board, from Japanese HC, to early post-HC, to South American Metal.

Today’s guest blogger is Jon Westbrook from sunny (Southern) California. You may remember him from Knife Fight, or some bands he doesn’t want you to interview him about. In his words, “I don’t speak Spanish, so I don’t have anything interesting to tell you”. He’s also a purveyor of very fine vinyl platters.

I’m sure a lot of you saw this posted over at the livewire records message board, but cc’s on vacation this week and I’m working crazy hours these days (tax season….ok, I’m too lazy to scour ebay every hour in the hopes that some badass platters turn up, but honestly…tax season). Looks like we have the start of a whole collection being sold right now. Hopefully the seller didn’t blow his ebay load on this first batch though, because there’s some pretty good ones up there. Always better to build the hype if you want serious money for your goods. The most likely winner of the bunch will be the Antidote “Thou Shalt Not Kill” EP. I can’t imagine anyone not knowing this EP by now, but in case you’re a n00b, it’s a definite top 5 USHC ep, and in most cases top 2 (Negative Approach is better). Only 500 made, backups by JJ, feat members of M.O.I., yadda yadda yadda. Other gems include an original SSDecontrol “The Kids Will Have Their Say,” FU’s “Kill For Christ,” Rest In Pieces “My Rage,” and the ever popular XChorusX LP. The majority of this collection is in the straight edge vein (80’s and 90’s). And seeing that the seller is from Italy, maybe we’ll get lucky and get some Wretched, Underage, and Bloody Riot records next go around (here’s to hoping). But if there’s one thing to learn when it comes to record collecting for the person who’s serious about owning the best of the best, consider this anecdote: For many of my teenage years and into the early 20’s, I used to curse my parent’s names for waiting 8 years to have children. I thought paying $50 for a record was absurd, and thought “if only I was 5 years older, I could have paid “absurd” prices by 1989’s standards.” But a wise man once told me “if you have the money, just buy it because it’ll be worth more than that in a few years.” Just think about how dumb I’d feel now if I had passed on paying $75 for that Antidote EP in ‘97…

Alright here’s a nice looking Underdog 7″for sale, noted as being first press. Presumably it is because if it were 2nd press it would be blue vinyl. Underdog still stands alone as such a weird band of their time. The riffs are really groovy and heavy for something recorded in ‘85 and even though they always point to the Bad Brains as an influence, there’s something way different about them. The soulful vocals threw me off as a kid, I thought they sounded like 80’s metal. I regretted thinking that later (now). Underdog is really right on the line where Hardcore crossed over from the first to the second generation of participants, and started to have much less to do with “Punk”. From around this point onward there seemed to be a lot more emphasis on precision in the music, speed seemed less important, production became more modern, there was a sound and aesthetic that became more self contained, and nowhere was this was more noticeable than New York City and its surrounding areas. Some could say it was the influence of Heavy Metal’s rising popularity, and in part it was, but I think, even if in a more subtle way, that street culture and early rap music played a part too, especially in New York. Look no further than Underdog’s classic Say It To My Face for a pseudo-rapped vocal delivery, and a musical groove, that I can’t describe any other way than “bouncy”. In some way or other it just sounds like the New York you’d picture from the mid-80s set to a song. My memories of that place are as dim as could be, I only visited once, and I was a child so maybe I’m wrong, but I don’t think so. For these reasons and probably some others, the Underdog 7″ strikes me as one of the earliest examples of a record you just can’t explain to punk “purists”. They hear Say It To My Face, or True Blue, and it just doesn’t resonate to them like Urban Waste or early AF. It’s too far removed, maybe too clean or not “crazy” enough. For me it’s just a different kind of power and anger, more focused, maybe less out of control, but not any less meaningful. Btw - check this seller’s other stuff for plenty of other great NYHC picks.

Well…. like an idiot i just lost the stuff I’d just written today about Floorpunch. I found all these editions of their 7″ for sale by one seller:

• Red vinyl #’d 200
• Blue vinyl (of 800)
• Black vinyl - 1st press
• Black vinyl w/ Green lettering on sleeve - 3rd press
• Euro tour edition w/ Judge sleeve
• White vinyl farewell edition

as well as a copy of their lp on white vinyl, and the In My Blood Records shirt.

This sucks total De Ja Vu from an hour ago. Anyway all I really wanted to say is that FP’s legacy has held up remarkably well over the last 10 years. The recordings still sounds pretty hot, the songs still deliver the power-load, the shirts still look good, the records still have cool layouts, it’s all still there, not really dulled at all by time. I was pretty disappointed I didn’t make it to their reunion show last fall, especially since I only really saw them twice when they were around. One more thing I gotta give credit for was how they were able to be a serious band, while still keeping a good sense of humor in interviews and on stage. If anything, the 90’s were plagued with overly serious, self important bands in every sub-genre around, and it’s safe to say, looking back a lot of it was presumptuous and I’d go so far to say some of it was downright insulting. Floorpunch was never caught in that trap. I mean their name defined, if it were in a dictionary, essentially means “To mosh.” Right there that tells you a thing or two, but even though the lyrics and music were simple, it still meant something. The anger was still there at the heart of it, and, even if some people don’t want to admit it, the rebellion against the outside world (and the larger “scene” for that matter). Also they always picked great cover songs.

So that’s not everything I was going to say, but that’s the gist of it. BUST!

Here’s a decent spread of NYHC style items. A lot of bootlegs but they’re all easily identifiable, and there’s a few that are actually pretty cool and nicely done.

Most interesting thing is this Krakdown 7″ with what seems to be an original insert, which is very rare. The story goes that they showed up to Kinkos to make lyric sheets but didn’t have enough money, and got sick of folding them or some such thing, so only a couple hundred were actually made. You almost never see a copy of this E.P. with an insert. Popular opinion, seems to be that their ‘87 demo smokes this recording, and though it is awesome, I think this record stands on its own for sure (even if the recording’s a little on the thin side). A jam like disappointed can’t just be written off quite that easily. If you don’t know Krakdown, well, you’re not necessarily to blame. They’re one of those NYHC bands stuck in reissue purgatory. I think their only available track is on the NYHC: The Way It Is comp, but they have a couple of demo recordings, this 7″, an unreleased split lp, and a wealth of great live sets. A real shame. They’ve always sort of been the NYHC equivalent to Void for me. They were looser and more punky than your average NYHC band with a wild and unhinged guitarist often that would break into squalls of feedback and stuttering atonal solos. Truly a cult classic.

I guess, continuing with the reissue purgatory is this Supertouch 7″ (titled: “What Did We Learn”). Supertouch is weird weird weird band, and until a few years ago they were in danger of being forgotten. I used to get made fun of for loving them in high school, I guess it finally came around though because Revelation recently repressed their album out of new interest in the band. This is their 7″ from before that though, and along with a couple of promo/demo recordings, a comp track on Revelation, and an infamous WNYU live set, it forms really the core of what the band was all about to people (besides stage diving that is). I still really can’t describe Supertouch right. Even on their earliest rehearsal recordings they mixed heavy grooving rock influenced guitar riffs, DC emo-core type melody, and NYHC attitude, delivering a really unlikely mix of all 3.

And then there’s this. Youth Of Today - Disengage on clear vinyl. I couldn’t help but see it and get annoyed. How similar it is to the Supertouch 7″, but how different as well. Disengage is a classic example of the washed-up Straight Edge record. The recording is clean and melodic. It’s a hard core 7″ but only has 3 songs. The cover doesn’t have the band name on it anywhere. The singer won’t scream anymore. While this isn’t far off the record named a few lines above here, the difference is that Youth of Today started off sounding like a bunch of Tasmanian Devils beating trashcans and stringed instruments (seriously listen to the original mix of their first E.P.), and thus it’s way more offensive to me. You’d think by now bands would have learned their lesson trying to transform their youthful hardcore band into some kind of half baked, reconfigured rock outfit, but it keeps happening. I feel like for 25 years it has been an endless cycle of youthful angry boys that make one or two good E.P.s, with a good intro or three, a couple catchy fast riffs, and then they start growing their hair, listening to Joy Division or Ride - or worse just another band of ex-HC guys like Quicksand or Into Another - and then it’s right on to the fanzine interviews where they talk about expanding their sound, how their old music is boring, all that shit. If only there was a way to tell these people that they are living out the same embarrassing cliche ending that so many bands before them have, on par with a high school football player choosing a white hat, or a Canadian citizen loving hockey.

By all means if you start a band feel free to grow, evolve, change, try new things, EXCEPT, if you start a straight edge hardcore band. If this is the path you choose please, all I ask is some good mosh parts, a singer with a powerful and unleashed yell, and at least one good t-shirt design (free of scratchy lettering, too many colors, and anything that has been on a hardcore band’s shirt in the last 6 years). This is all it takes folks. You don’t need to grow, you don’t need to get introspective, you don’t need to plagiarize that Sonic Youth lp you just bought. People have been playing rock music for a major chunk of the last century, so when you get over hardcore, please spare everyone the come-lately rocker vibe, and just quietly put down your guitar and shut up. Thank you in advance, and to all my formerly Straight Edge friends - I still love you.

I guess technically this should be on bid-proto-hardcore dot com. Once again we’ve got a seller with a bunch of clothing for sale, and a couple of interesting vinyl items. Most desirable is a decent looking copy of Crime “Hot Wire My Heart” backed with “Baby You’re So Repulsive”, their first release from 1976. I was struck with how memorable the Crime aesthetic was even before I’d actually heard their music. They have a big bold logo, they always look cool in promo photos, often in matching get-ups, and their promotional flyers always had cool looking pop-art type imagery. Something has been made of them being an early example of D.I.Y. type approach in punk music (Hotwire is a self financed/released single), and that’s worth at least a mention, but desirable records it does not necessarily make. The sound of Crime is interesting, it kicks up a mid-tempo rocking feel, not far off a solid glam band, maybe like one of those James Williamson era Stooges bootlegs, but even more rickety and loose, and with a sharp sardonic vocal delivery that’s altogether meaner than Iggs even at his most pissed. There’s something else I can’t quite put my finger on that makes the sound of Crime compelling though. Maybe it’s how it sounds like they don’t even care that the recording sounds like little more than a few mics standing in the middle of the racket, or the way the guitars seem to be getting bashed in and out of tune at various times. There’s just an intangible something about Crime that makes them cool as hell. If you’ve never checked out Crime you oughta be able to find the San Francisco’s Doomed anthology, or download their 3 singles (although the third sucks by all accounts) off any number of mp3 blogs.

1 more jam you might want up here is is this Major Conflict 7″. This is an early NYHC entry, and certainly an “also-ran”, famed partially for the fact that the group featured members of Urban Waste, and also for the movie and book, based in part on one of the member’s experiences in the band “A Guide To Recognizing Your Saints”. For NYHC trivialists, the 2nd Raw Deal demo (which was never officially released when the band was around, but is where their comp tracks come from, and was used to submit to In Effect to get signed) has a cover of the song Outgroup, which Raw Deal and later Killing Time later sometimes performed live. Anyhow, I can’t say this record is great, but it does have some cool parts. There’s only 3 songs, and they’re a little on the long side, and more tuneful and “rockin” than the sound Urban Waste were known for, but some people, including my associate AJ find the record, and it’s bizarre lyrics about walking down the street and being king of the jungle, to be endearing. Mad At The World records did a CD reissue of this 7″ along with an unreleased 12″ E.P. and some live material maybe 2-3 years back if you’re interested, but you could always just buy this very E.P.

OOPS — I almost didn’t notice this Accused/Rejectors split 12″the first Accused record (as noted), and I think (?) their only with their original singer before Blaine from the Fartz joined. I just learned he was also the singer on the 10-Minute Warning demo which is an exceptional tape trade obscurity. Can one of you hardcorepunkmetalfreaks get on reissuing that? The last song on my copy cuts off. Totally classic thrash, although it’s hard to tell the condition of the record from the photo.